Ed Gamester Talks Mythos: Ragnarok (Interview Part 1)

It was early afternoon on Sunday, February 26th, 2023, hours before the 40th show of Mythos: Ragnarok (the first and, as of yet, only wrestling-based theatre production), when we sat at the entrance of The Cockpit venue. Engaging in casual chitchat, Ed Gamester, creator and star of Mythos, discussed the rather peculiar fact that he was the one who created the first wrestling-infused theatre show. “Having watched wrestling forever and knowing how many people are involved in it, how many creative people are involved in it,” Ed explained. “It’s a real head f*** to think that I did it [put on a wrestling-based theatre show] - not Vince [McMahon] (laughs). Not the billionaire with all the contacts.” Laughing in response to his statement, I replied, "The independent wrestler." 

Ed Gamester was indeed once an independent professional wrestler. However, he is also a writer, former strongman, stuntman, lover of Norse Mythology, and perhaps most importantly, a creative unafraid to construct his vision – no matter the obstacles that stand in his way. Combining his love of wrestling, stunt work, and Norse Mythology – Gamester laid the foundations for his show during the uncertain COVID era. Later, he put everything he had into taking Mythos to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2022, and ever since then, the show has gone from strength to strength - performing in front of sell-out crowds across the country and even debuting in Melbourne, Australia. The show is a breathtaking spectacle, worthy of all the plaudits it continues to receive, but even more breathtaking is the inspiring journey to create Mythos, which Gamester so graciously shared with us earlier this year. 

How did the story of Mythos: Ragnarok all start? What was the genesis of the thought: “You know what; this would make a great theatre show”?

“Well, because I come from, as you’ve probably worked out – like a stunt background and a bit of a film background; I was always interested in how my skills as a wrestler translated into doing stunt fighting and storytelling within movies and filmed stuff. And that kind of got me thinking about the underutilisation of wrestling and wrestlers in general.”

Across the board or just in theatre?

“Yeah, across the board. In film primarily - I didn’t even think about theatre. I don’t come from a theatre background. I was interested in how my skills and the skills of other wrestlers weren’t really appreciated in the film industry because we weren’t really seen as proper stunt people. We were fake actors. We were not real actors and not real fighters - we were neither. Whereas I thought we were probably both. So, I came up with the idea of combining wrestling with weapon fighting, which is what we do a lot of in stunt work. You know, being able to actually smash people with weapons and make contact with them, send them flying, and they hit the deck and all of this. Which sounds like nothing when you say it out loud, but when you do it on a film set, a lot of the time, you have to fake these things because you can’t actually smash an actor with a shield because they are quite soft – we’re all quite soft as humans. If you break them, they’re in trouble because their character is broken in the film.

“Wrestlers get smashed all the time, so I thought I knew a group of people that could take to this really well. So I started working on the idea of a live show that I could put together that would combine the storytelling of film and theatre with the combat style of stunts, where it’s not announced that there will be a fight. So I came up with that concept and started working around that idea. I started doing immersive outside theatre events with some fellow wrestlers of mine to experiment and see how this worked. How would people take to wrestling outside of the context of a faux sporting event? And they seemed to really enjoy it, which is just as well, it was COVID, so there was nothing else to be doing.” 

So you were doing those mini events during COVID time?

“Yeah, so when COVID came and shut down the performance industries - none of us had anything to do. And as you probably know, there’s no money in wrestling or theatre. None of us do it for the cash; we do it because it’s good for us. It’s who we are, and it’s good for our mental health. So I saw what it was doing to me and my fellow performers – to our mental health – not being able to perform. So I thought, as long as I’m able to make an event, a thing that we can perform in – even if nobody comes – at least we’re being creative. We’re breaking some new ground in terms of using wrestling, and it’ll keep us all sane because we get to perform.”

It’s an outlet.

“Precisely. So we did it as an outlet, and fortunately, some people came. We had to do it outside because it was COVID. Everyone had to be in their bubbles because it was COVID. Everyone had to be separated. So we did a few of those, and it was just seat-of-the-pants stuff. You know, a lot of improvised theatre, a lot of improvised storytelling, but with these big dramatic fights. Just to see: how does wrestling go down? Do people think it’s dumb? It’s really hard to get a gauge on what the public thinks about wrestling. I know what wrestling fans think about wrestling. But the general public still says, ‘Oh, Big Daddy. It’s a shame wrestling died,’ and you’re like, ‘What are you talking about? Wrestling’s not dead. It’s bigger than ever. It’s everywhere.’ It’s just not mainstream. So I wondered how will they take [to wrestling]? What will they think of a Chokeslam? Are they going to think it’s silly? Are they going to get behind it? And that was fascinating. So we did that for a bit, and that taught me that there are legs in this. And then with the people that I surrounded myself with, I wanted to do like an Asgardian-Valhalla style Fight Club, where it was more about the stories than it was about the characters. Then you bring out the Ice Giant, and Thor has to fight him. There was obvious theatre in there.”

So, the Norse Mythology was like the obvious choice the whole time?

“It was for me anyway, simply because that’s my background. Not academically, that’s a strong word to use for it. But I’ve always had an interest in it and studied it.”

A fascination, if you will?

“Yeah, yeah. I studied some ancient Icelandic at Uni to help me read the sagas in their native languages, which was a disaster. I shouldn’t have tried that. I was bad at that (laughs). But yeah, I’ve always been fascinated. Probably for the same reason you’ve taken an interest in wrestling, right? Big characters doing crazy, over-the-top stuff. It’s not meant to be believable. That’s why people, I think, get confused.”

It’s escapism.

“Yeah, precisely. So Mythology was my escapism as a kid, and a young adult, and I got more of an interest in the academics of it as an adult. So, I was very close to those stories, so the opportunity to tell stories based in that world was of huge interest. But then the idea to weave all the myths together into an actual theatre piece, that didn’t happen until I came here [The Cockpit]. I set foot in Cockpit, and I talked to Dave, the director, about my Valhalla-wrestling thing, and he was like, ‘Ummm [laughs], it doesn’t sound like wrestling or theatre’. You know, RevPro [Wrestling] has been here. He knows wrestling. He was like: ‘I get what wrestling is, and I get what theatre is, and you’re doing sort of neither’. So I wrote Ragnarok to prove that we could do this.”

It could be both?

“Yeah, and it would work. And it was terrifying and expensive.”

I was going to say, you put, especially with the [Edinburgh] Fringe, you put everything you had into it. And if it didn’t work out, you lost everything - right? 

“And if it did work out... We sold out Edinburgh Fringe, and we still came out - easily £10, 000 down because of the costs of Edinburgh. Imagine we hadn’t [sold out]. That month alone would have cost me £15, 000 if it hadn’t sold any tickets. So we sold out. It went as well as it could possibly go, and we still came out, like ten grand down, just on that one month.”

What you’re putting in and considering your background, is this the ultimate dream show for you?  Obviously I’m not implying you’ll never do anything else (laughs).

“(Laughs) Yeah, it’s Norse Mythology and wrestling, which are my two passions and favourite storytelling types combined. I love the intimate nature of it. It’s still kind of small. It works well for small theatres. I think – it’s not as far as I want to take it – like there is a lot we can do in the production of it to make it a bigger and more spectacular event. But in terms of the subject matter and what we’re doing – yeah – we’re doing something that’s never been done, and that’s hard to find these days. So, yeah, man, this is as cool as it gets for me.”

One of the things that I love about this whole story of you just making it is – I am inspired by those who actively seek out and make things happen because I want to do things in my own way, and even if this isn’t what we could call “Hollywood” level success – it’s still a huge success. I teach within the arts sector, and one of the things I hammer home to my students, especially those doing things like dissertations is, you have to embrace this, because this world we live in – you don’t always get given things. You have to make things happen, especially in this industry, and I’ve recently given this show as an example of that.

“Oh, bless you.”

But isn’t this the perfect illustration of that because no one else is making a show with wrestling and theatre, and I don’t think anyone would have had you not done it.

“They will now, and good luck to them because I know what it has taken to do it first, and I guess it will be slightly easier now that there is a precedent. But yeah, good luck to anyone trying to do this, but I hope they do. You talk about Hollywood levels of success and what you are teaching to your kids – so when I say, ‘I do stunts’, people are always like, ‘Oh, what have you been in? What big movies will I have heard of?’ Which is weird because people have this idea of success and your career as being fame or people having heard of you.”

Being visible, for lack of a better word?

“Yeah, as if that’s the end goal, as if you can’t be a working actor or stuntman or wrestler just doing, like, not the Hollywood jobs. You could make a full income for yourself just working – like the last couple of years, I’ve mainly done Bollywood jobs because I frickin’ love doing Bollywood jobs, and nobody thinks that’s glam. I’m like, a) you don’t understand, this is a big deal...”

I’m also fascinated with Bollywood, and some of my background is in studying Indian Cinema (laughs).

“There you go - right? So, for one thing, they don’t get it. Another thing, even if these are small movies or indie movies, if I’m making a career or any performer is making a career in the performance industry – it doesn’t matter if you’ve never heard of them. When someone says I work in I.T., you’re like, ‘Oh, who for?’ And if it’s not for Microsoft, you’re not like, ‘Oh, sorry, hope it works out for you’. It doesn’t matter. But because our industry is perceived as being like an attention seeking industry – that if you’re not getting as much attention as Hollywood, then you’re not succeeding, and that’s bizarre to me. And it’s part of what we try to embody in our show, is all the wrestlers in our show are phenomenally talented, but I don’t feel any one of them have felt like their career has suffered for not being up there [in WWE].”

Also, pinning your hopes on the highest of highs, which the one percent of the one percent attains, is a bad route if you’re talking about mental health. If that’s the only definition of success, how unhealthy can that be?

“Guaranteeing that you fail. And not just guaranteeing that you fail – stripping all the joy out of all the successes along the way. So, okay, we’re talking about success. Has this show succeeded? I don’t know. Thousands of people have seen it.”

In my interpretation, I would say yeah.

“I feel like it has. But I’m sure that if you put it on paper, like business, has it made any money? No, of course not. It makes loads of money, but it costs even more to run it. The overhead is huge. So from a business point of view, people would be like, it hasn’t succeeded yet. From, like, an acting point of view, have we got Time Out five-star reviews? No, of course not. I never even thought that people would come and see the show in the first place. Our first show had 25 people there. Our first show at Fringe had one person there, plus three friends. And that was what I expected, and the fact that we have this, that we’ve just done a tour, and now we’re selling out here, and people want to come and see it. People come back like 3-4-5 times. To me, that’s a success because it means I’ve done my job right. I’ve told a story people care about.

“On a wrestling side of things, if this year goes as I will make it go, Mythos will be the biggest employer of wrestlers, I think, in Europe. In terms of number of shows, amount of income generated for people. We’re not a wrestling show, but in terms of paying wrestlers and employing wrestlers, I think we’ll do more shows than any other wrestling company. But I think where I’m going, I’ll do more shows than all of the wrestling companies in the UK combined. I think we’ll generate more income for wrestlers than all of them.”

Wow.

“And that’s a huge ambition to have, whether we get there or not. And that’s not a diss on wrestling companies at all. It’s a way of being like; this is another way for wrestlers to earn money that isn’t doing wrestling shows.”

It’s just more options.

“Yeah, and it opens doors.”

You touched on the Fringe there and what you put into it. For the outsiders or aspiring artists, what does it actually take to run a show at the Fringe? I don’t know that much, but I read somewhere it can cost £10, 000 alone, just for the venue.

“Yeah, of course. Our venue cost us, easily £15, 000, I think. So they work on profit splits, but they’re not good profit splits. They’re like 60-40 profit splits, but with a minimum, so you guarantee a minimum. So I think my minimum was like £12, 000 or whatever, and then after that, you then give them 40% of every ticket you sell. So that’s one thing, and then you got accommodation. We have a cast of ten people. Accommodation – when we looked at it – was £21-25, 000 for a month. So that’s your main one. People can’t afford to go to Edinburgh Fringe to see shows, let alone perform there, let alone take a cast of twelve people and techs. So the costs of it are ludicrous. There is no other way of putting it. I could only do it by knowing this was the only thing I was born to do, and I only managed to do it because of the generosity of my cast. Everybody got paid, but it wasn’t – it wasn’t so far off Equity minimums – but it was hundreds of pounds a week rather than thousands of pounds. Everyone did it cheap basically.

“No one in Mythos works for free, and that’s always been the case. But then no one got full theatre rates for doing Fringe for me, but then no one gets full theatre rates for doing Fringe for anyone. And also, it’s a s**tload more money than you get paid to wrestle, and it’s daily. So the costs of it are nothing short of ludicrous, out of this world, and ridiculous. We’re looking at doing Fringes and other things over in northern Europe, and they often pay you to come because they have Art Subsidies. So there are no Art Subsidies; you can’t even go to ACE, and you can’t get Arts Counciling funding for Fringe. They won’t fund Fringe shows. Understandably, because there are thousands of them, but also, who is meant to fund them? How are you meant to fund them? In our case-”

You were self-funded - right?

“Yeah, I just put every penny I made from stunts into it. We lived in a van, Mel [Ed’s girlfriend and Mythos’ designer] and I. We lowered our expenses as low as we could go, I borrowed as much money as I could, everyone in the show agreed to work for the lowest they could do, which was beautiful of them. And yeah, then we just scraped and scraped and hoped to God – and it would have f****d up completely if we hadn’t sold tickets. That would have been the end of it because it would have cost me tens of thousands of quid to be there, and I would have never recovered. But because we sold out - we sold out because of the efforts of the cast flyering – but because we sold out, I only lost a little bit. But the opportunities we generated helped us get there, but mate, that was not a fluke – but will of the Gods. If we hadn’t sold out, none of this would’ve happened.”

Yeah, I mean, it’s driven by passion. You have to be all in.

“It has to be. That’s just the finances. The physicality of it – performing like that every night for 26 nights is just monstrous (laughs).”

Continue reading by heading over to Part 2 of our interview with Ed Gamester.

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